Marketing Yourself

Pure, unadulterated elegance, Hal.

Don't have time to dig them up tonight, but somewhere in my archives I have a set of 'leave-behinds.'

Anyone know what a leave-behind is?

I'm a noob to the whole marketing struggle and all I've done is online spamming - being a part of art social sites and interacting with other artists. Of course, that doesn't gain you a buying crowd. Lots of fans and followers, but it won't bring many commissions or sales. I like your idea with DVDs and brochures. Have you made an art book yet? Heard that helps some, but the upfront cost of making the books can be pretty high.

I'm interested in hearing more about what you've done to promote yourself. I haven't gotten very far in my short 3 yr painting business! XD

Thank you Patrick,

A leave behind is something that a Creative Director, Art Director or anybody else that you want to remember you. It could be a press release, brochure, business card (always), DVD or CD of your work or anything that will be a reminder of who you are. Each piece must have your name, telephone number and a brief description of what you do.

Class is in session!

Hiya Cara,

I am a firm believer in the fact that I won't chase my profits. What I mean by that is keep it simple and inexpensive. That's why I have always designed, printed and produced all of my promotional pieces. It helps me to control my overhead. I wouldn't want to pick up work just to pay for the supplies and print that I used for my self promotions. There are many other ways of selling yourself, for ex: Hang your art in libraries, restaurants, banks and art shows. I have done all of these. None of which cost me a penny. Also spread the word with emails, letters and friends. Small ads in newspapers are excellent help in picking up portrait and pet portrait commissions.

I just started selling, I have nothing to add to this but I will be part of the class. I want to learn how to market myself.
I can't find things that are free to do. Everything costs money.

Here is one that will give you some exercise and financial rewards as well. Design and print (one Color) doorknob hangers. Take your bicycle and a bag full of doorknob hangers and ride your bicycle around your neighborhood posting on mailboxes and doors information about yourself such as: Portraits, pet portraits, house portraits, etc. Try to hit homes of people who don't know you. "Spread the Word!"

Thank you for useful information. I have been making exhibitions since 2000 as an artist. Only way I made my living was through my graphic design work. Making paintings or any kind of other media was only for exhibitions. I didnt do much selling. My most successful art selling was selling original drawings at the Christmas Market inFinland (This is where I live). Year after year I had more and more people buying my drawings. So, I can do selling by showing my work and explaining about the story behind the work. Most of my works are based on stories... It doesnt feel or look the same on the internet. I wished I could just have christmas market everyday on this page!!!

Thank you for this discussion. I will try to improve my portfolio in my site: www.belgrafik.com

Regards,
Sibel Kantola

Angel, here are some freebies. Go to your neighborhood vets and ask them if you could hang a sign with an example of your art that sells you as a pet portrait artist. Also go to realtors' offices and ask if you can hang an ad with example featuring yourself as a house portrait artist. None of these will cost you a penny unless you offer a percentage of your profits as an incentive for them to sell your art.

Sibel the bad thing about selling your art at shows is this - count the number of artists that are in the show. If the number is 150 then that's your odds of making a sale. Pretty steep, huh? The restaurants, libraries, realtors, vets, and banks odds are zip. You are only competing with yourself. I like those odds better than the art shows. The other thing about art shows is this - I made over $17,000 from my last two art shows. Would you want to compete with artists of my experience at these art shows? I deal in odds. Where are my best odds of making a sale. I just gave you a few.

Cara,

I have just checked out your art and you would be a natural as a pet portrait artist or anything else you put your mind to. One thing I try to do is let my art speak for itself. My art can read like fine poetry but when I start talking I can sometimes come across as uneducated stumblebum. For this reason I try to include examples of my art in all of my ads, mailers, DVD covers or anything else that I use to advertise myself. This makes people think they are getting something important, that is, until they see me in my jeans with holes in the pockets, my old Yankee cap and my dirty tennis shoes.

Always let your strengths work for you. Don't hide them. I use to be too shy to tell people that I was an artist until I met George Torjussen. He was a friend of mine who use to carry these huge paintings with him where ever he went. To give you an idea of how big these paintings were, he usually painted on doors. Everybody knew he was an artist. He was selling his paintings for thousands and thousands of $. He can be found here at FAA.

http://fineartamerica.com/profiles/george-torjussen.html

Well done covers and thanks for the info! Already started doing that, concentrating locally.

I'm going to try promoting at a home and garden show. The only thing is many if not most of the visitors in this wealthy area are probably artists themselves. But it is not an art show as such so I have a chance to get direct contact with interested people for my portrait sculpture and paintings of landcsapes.

Harold, you are absolutely right, we all have to take time and develop ourselves as brands, just look around, evaluate honestly what we are good for and come up with a plan... And be flexible with that plan... I actually thought I would get more use of internet... again will have to change the direction...

Wonder if anyone at FAA buys their own canvas prints framed to sell in a show. It would cost more out on the street for this investment probably.

Olga, The internet is only as good as your phonebook. How many times has somebody called you and said, "I was just reading the phonebook and saw your name?" The internet is just like a phonebook. Unless they know you are there, your phone and email address will collect a lot of dust. You have to start with mailing campaigns, word of mouth and any other advertisements you can think of. There is a lot of work out there, you just have to announce yourself so that they know who and where you are. There is an old expression that says "Blow your own horn because nobody else will."

Thank you so much! I will try to make flyers!! Not in here though (I am in Korea and cant speak the language). I go back to Finland in summer. I used to have exhibitions in culture centers and libraries, but not in restaurants, banks and vets...It can be interesting. I also love the idea of the flyers and bicycle... I live in Turku, so it is very nice town to bicycle during summer. This can be a summer project, to take the flyers to some mail boxes? I hope it wont make people a bit enoyed. But I can try to make it look as cheerful as possible!

I have never made $17,000! I did sell several paintings in one exhibition, but they all were like 400 to 800 euros. I guess I am not even close to your level! Thank you again for taking time to give advices to others!

In the previous posts I have been dealing with what I call personal work. The other side of the coin is commercial work. That's a totally different ball game. That arena is where I made enough money to buy a home in the suburbs, put 3 children in college and support a family of 5. The commercial arena is where you have to be well grounded and versed in the business of the art game. I met and dealt with more people than you can think of who had one idea in their heads - How do I get Harold Shull to work for me for as little as possible and have him thanking me for it? There are a lot of Do's and Don't's in this area.

With the help of some of the other professionals who frequent these boards, I will attempt to open some doors for you. But right now I am tired and have to sack out. Until tomorrow...

I like the doorknob idea, but I don't know how to advertise myself. I am an abstract painter/multimedia artist and a photographer. What would I put on a doornob? I like the vet idea too because I have done work with shelters.

Pet photographer? People wouldn't want abstracts of pets, they would want realism. Then I would have to have a place to take the pictures, their homes? That raises safety issues.....ugh my brain hurts already...this is why I suck at this.

"angels abstract pet portraits" ...... Lol.....if that isn't pimping myself out, wow,....but it could be alot of fun too. :) I love animals and there are dogs everywhere around here.

Thank you for opening this thread, I will attempt to glean any wisdom I can.

Because I mainly design t-shirts I designed one with my name and e-mail addy on it. Now I wander around like a walking billboard. LOL.
Also annoy people on Facebook and twitter. Another idea that popped into my pretty empty head was a bumper sticker. I am lucky in the fact my wife has a Mustang and they arent exactly something you see every day in England. I drop off cards and flyers at Diners. Cards I print off computer and flyers the same.Everything done for little money. Prints and posters I have sold seem to have come from posting them on twitter ;0) gra

I believe the best way to market your work is to find yourself.

Thanks for generously sharing your knowledge and experience with us Harold. When anyone asks me what I am doing with myself now that I am retired, I mention my art and say, "Google my name and take a look at what I am doing." People use Google all the time and I think there is something curious or interesting about seeing the name of a person they know or have met show up when they click "Search". I know that I have gotten some sales doing this.

Hi Hal and everyone,
What a great thread, and good advice, I market myself everywere, I work on the terrace of my local cafe in summer and inside it in winter, have 3 exhibts going all year, Mine is all personal contact, for clients father away they have my artsites to visit , I run my photgraphy along side,and because Im always seen get people coming up and asking me to do there photography , example: the local rugby club now use me on a weekly basis, from that Ive got weddings, and from my expos Ive gotten the festivals, and it grows.
Always have my cards, flyers ect with me ,and always reply toute suite to enquiries, and always have people who do not mind if someone phones them for a referance of my work.
From the weddings 2 of them brought artwork as well as presants for people, so one helps the other.
I do a lot of footwork ,its down to good old fashioned hard work ,
Have a good rapour with the local press,it is hard because I am dealing with a second language,nearly all my work is from the french side, the french really do have an understanding of the art, and are very supportive of me in there country, they know Im alone, they know I support myself, and they know I work hard, .
and Hal, you so right with the CDS and things like that , I made 1 coffee table book , it cost me about 20 euros, which to me is a lot, but it sure does work, I use it to showcase, and people love it, its got me a lot of work,and has paid for itself real quick,it was funny to because, 10 people ordered it (the book itself) you don't get much from that, but I got work from those people , it was like an advert they had paid for ,for me.Cool.
I better hush now, thats just a small example of my ways of doing things, its so cool hearing everybodys ways, thanks again Hal, for all the advice, it is really helpful . .... :)

Hal;
one way to market is to not only get up great art and let people know but to have some sort of gimmick. A fragrance for instance. I'm thinking about comming up with some sort of snake oil fragrance. The commercial would have the sound of a rattlesnake's buzzzzz. Everyone would want to get a
buzzzz and while telling other who ask where they got it they might buy a print or something!

All the stars sell a linbe of fragrance and clothing to keep in the money between gigs.

Hal - this is a very helpful thread - I need to get off my bum and start putting these things into motion.

Other people talk about me like I'm not there and then when introduced I hand out cards and show pictures. I just wish I had a card with a picture where I looked like James Bond like that one of you Harold!
I am not really a sales man. I just recently discussed someone representing me for a 10% commission on all sales. I don’t have the time or the persona to be good at sales, it makes me uncomfortable. Letting someone I know and trust handle it makes me feel better and it is worth it to me.

Angel, being an abstract painter teaches you about composition and design. These attributes should help you in pet photography. This may come as a shock to most of you but pet portraits are more popular than people portraits. If you have any doubts, just google both of them and see which has the most artists represented.

Gra since you know how to transfer an image to a t-shirt, have you ever offered a pet owner a t-shirt with his pet featured on it? I bet that would be a huge seller.

Colin, that's the secret of a successful advertising campaign - knowing thyself. What a shame it would be if a marathon athlete entered himself into a quarter mile race.

You're right about that Phil but how many sales would you get from curious friends? Somebody could do the same thing by advertising themselves with a page number in the phonebook... same results. The trick in promoting yourself to get complete strangers to notice you and your art.

Thank you Jo. You seem to have found the niche you need in promoting yourself.

Hiya vince, the only problem I see with that type of perfume is the word "snakeoil." That has a rather strange history such as quack. It could work with the proper advertisements. I think the younger crowd would buy something with a name like that.

Ely that's the tough part - getting started. I believe that a successful artist is one of the hardest working people in the world.

Hiya Mark. I don't look like James Bond either, I used a lot of imagination on that portrait. I used to have 3 sales reps but I sold a lot more of 'me' and my art for one very simple reason. I know 'me' better than anybody else does.

Today I have to get started on my new commissions by calling my customers with my 'successful artist's voice' and make my appointments. Will get back to this topic a little later.

I've found that the vast majority of people are highly receptive to business cards and to ading themselves to a mailing list - for art. So, don't be shy guys! People like finding and seeing your art!

Hal; What about the fragrance buzzz idea?

I really need help determining what I am...
I did honestly think that most of what I love to do is sellable ...

Ideally I would love to do a bit of cityscapes - love to travel(have a bit of that represented here).
But It seems to me that in Northern America people do prefer their own surroundings (not a little romantic cafe somewhere else) Which is why as soon as the weather improves I will do the massive attack on Toronto...

I also dream of doing surrealistic portraits, but for that I need studio with proper lighting (I will definitely do it when I grow up)...

Will appreciate your input!!!

Regina, you are absolutely right.

That word has a little less frightening sound to it Vince. But I think either word could work with the right kind of advertising.

Olga, I already like the type of art you are doing with your camera. BTW, how old are you?

Olga, you dont need a studio to do surrealistic portraits!
I do most of my portraits at my bedroom (i think i have some kind of social-phobia)
My basic equipments/gear : A solid tripod, light modifiers (umbreall or softbox) my kismet (Nikon D90) , 2 flashes (SB900 and Sb600) and photoshop or GIMP.

Marketing in general is separating yourself from your competition. First, find out who your competition really is. Second, separate yourself from them even if it means changing your style or medium or genre. Really think about what you want to accomplish......do you enjoy art as a hobby, do you want art as a career....do you want to be the best at your craft....and you are willing to do anything to accomplish it? Most of the books that I read about marketing boil down to this.

Ex. I started out wanting to do bronze sculptures....when I looked around at bronze sculptors I realized they were in a much higher skill set than I and there are literally thousands of bronze sculptors.....even after 20 years of perfecting this craft, my competition would be great and my chances of selling a piece...minimal. So I decided to do something that was talked about as being crazy......I started sculpting life size figures out of steel and then chrome or nickel plate them. As far as I know I am the only one doing this. I have done countless and exhaustive searches to find someone out there who does this style of sculpture.....could not find any.

So.........go crazy...

Years ago , I got let go from this advertising agency in Baltimore when the project we were working on was finished. Unbeknownst to us, the owner of the agency - Monumental Films - only hired us to do this one animation project for the government. Al Walker - Chief Animator, Me - Al's Assistant and Norman Vogel the photographer. Norman asked me if I wanted to go into business with him until we could find some full time positions. I asked him what the business consisted of and he told me, kidnapping.

For those photographers out there who don't know what 'kidnapping' is, it's shooting pictures of babies door to door and selling them to the parents. The way you go about it is this; you go to a young neighborhood where you will find young parents - usually apartments. After announcing yourself as photographers, you tell the parents that you are conducting a baby photo contest in the neighborhood at no cost to the parents. The very best photograph wins a full color photograph of the baby. After you take the pictures of the baby, you go back to your studio and print out 4 or 5 jumbo prints of the baby. Once you show them to the parents, they always order some photographs and walla, you just made a profit and picked up a new client. One thing to remember about this line of work is you need two people to do this, one person poses the baby and the other does the shooting. You usually only have a second or two to get those great shots; a baby crawling out from under a blanket, playing with their favorite toy, etc. Also, your day can only begin after the baby has been fed and had a nap. We usually started our day around 10 to 10:30am and was finished around 3:30 to 4pm. You have to work fast.

When Norman and I did this, way back in 1961, there weren't any digital cameras like today so everything we did was processed in a darkroom. With today's digital cameras and computers it will limit the amount of customers you will pick up but you will be able to do 4 or 5 times the amount of work Norman and I could turn out in a darkroom.

With this kind of work you won't be able to make enough money to pay the mortgage but you can make enough to put food on the table.

Harold, I am still surprised to see that my driver's license says I am just under 40 (I just love to use the phrase "when I grow up", which is more of a cognitive term),

Venura, I think in portraits the light is very very important, I know manipulations in photoshop are very forgiving, but the original quality of light still remains the key for me, can not compromise. I do not like the quality of average studio photos. Still searching for my recipe.... Plus to charge money you have to demonstrate professional environment...
I do like what you do though...

Hmmm, something that seperates me from the competition? So there isn't any competition?

Interesting idea...

I love kids and I would love doing child portraits but my point and shoot won't cut it right now.
I definitely have some wheels turning now...

Great story, Harold, love it. We used to have beach photographers like that... It is not my character though I am a quiet type... There is always that personality... that is in the way of actually doing things...

Olga,


I think in portraits the light is very very important - totally agree! Thats why i consider Joe Mcnally as my mentor. Like he says light the subject
Most of the top photographers started their business at their garage. so my point i you need to start somewhere. (most times i use photoshop and LR to enhance my subjects, thats it. I am not solely dependent on PS)

Anyway,you have a nice set of digital hybrids.
Good luck with your sales!

Harold, Thank you for sharing tips with us. This is going to be a really interesting thread! Kudos!

Venura


http://www.facebook.com/venuraherathphoto
www.venuraherath.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/venuraherath/

I sell 95% of my original paintings thru facebook, just FYI - doing pretty well for the past 3 yrs, too! ;)

To all you youngsters.

My Advice is to HUSTLE.....Face To Face wherever and whenever you Can..

I was in my mid forties, when I left Architecture to peddle my stuff.

I've done shows inside and out.

Juried Art shows, Craft shows, Street Fairs, Renaissance Faires.. Big Shows, Small Shows, Northern Shows, Southern Shows....anywhere where there were PEOPLE

Wow...

I am currently studying silhouette art. I am a huge scrapbooker. I was just thinking, how cool would it be to have a silhouette art peice of a family pet? Putting myself out there, to solicit the jobs...ugh, that would make me so uncomfortable.

I am going to do a test run with my own dogs. See how it goes...:)

I would not know where to begin to price this...paper art?

Hey good idea Angel! Take it to the limit......

Thanks Greg. :) Your statues are a timeless beauty. I was just talking to my family about this thread today, I think you discussing setting yourself apart makes a lot of sense. I have never thought of or tried to do that...I think it is time I start thinking out of the box.

Making things we find beautiful resonate with others too.

I am not at all surprised that pet portraits are popular. I just had not thought of gearing work toward it.

Oh wow, everyone has such great advice! Thank you all! I'll begin making brochures, door hangers (love the idea!), and asking around my area for possible places to display. Harold, you're wonderful for sharing your wisdom with us. I usually make my own flyers and advertising too (though as I mentioned, I'm still new to it all). I'm a bit of a hermit but it's about time I get out of my shell...the world won't wait for me to warm up!

Now let's see...
brochures
CDs
Coffee table book (WONDERFUL...does anyone have a good source for that?)
Get off my tush and visit places
Door hangers
Spam mailboxes with notecards and the like
MORE ART SHOWS...did four last year (though nothing came of it, I met many art enthusiasts!)

the list goes on, THANK YOU!

Greg, separating yourself from the competition is a very good idea if possible. But when you look at FAA's members list and start counting photographers, artists, sculptors, etc., it's not that easy. I think you have a better chance of finding work in areas that most artists and photographers overlook. At least that's what I tried doing when I was freelancing and searching for new clients.

Let's take a look at that word 'client' for a minute. Doing a job for somebody and then never hearing from them again is not my idea of a client. Doing a job for somebody and then having him call you back again and again is my idea of a client. These are the people you should be looking for - of course while you are doing the work for the 'one hit wonders.'

Venura, I can identify with you when it comes to working in confined areas. I have worked in bedrooms, warehouses, basements and of course art studios and art departments. I prefer the art department where I have an office with the Empire State building out one window and a beautiful view of the Hudson River from all of the other windows in the art department. That's the view I had from my office in Mego Toys when I was the Art Director.

Erika, that's great. Be careful to not sell your art to cheaply. It takes a long time to get the prices back where they should be.

Roger, I'm sure you have a thousand stories to tell about selling your art.

Angel that's a very popular form of art. Making small silhouettes and then framing them in those cameo styled frames are very popular.

Folks, the trick to selling your art at lower prices is this. Do lower priced art. Never cheapen your art by underpricing it because, not only are you hurting yourself but most importantly, you are hurting the previous buyer of your art. For example, you sell a landscape painting to one buyer for $2,500 and then at your next show you aren't doing that well in sales so you sell a landscape for $2,000. You have just devalued your previous customer's painting by $500 and he won't appreciate that. The only way an appraiser can put a value on your painting is to find out what your last painting sold for. If you keep lowering your prices, in essence you are lowering the value of your art. I always tell my customers if they can't afford a certain price, I can paint it on a smaller panel or instead of a bust I will paint just the head.

Angel, I think you may be on to something but take it as far as you can to make it difficult for people to copy you!

Great advice Harold! As far as devaluating your art!

Absolutely Greg. The thing that I give bargains on is my giclee prints but when it comes to my originals, that's different. That would be the same thing as giving my legacy to my children away for nothing.

Very popular? Pet silhouettes? I never see any? Well, is popular good or bad here?

I am sure I can make them quite distinctive. Developing the artstyle for it will take some experimentation. I will to need think about how to make the door flyers for it. I am so excited about this prospect.

Angel, cutting out portraits in silhouette form is what I meant is a popular form. Cutting out pet portraits in silhouettes is a first as far as I know.

Ahhh.... I did some looking around online, there are some people who do it but not many. I am really loving this idea, I think I am going to run with it.
There is a pretty wide range of how people do this. I can make paper cuttings like traditional ones or digitally altered art.

I have lots of wheels turning now. :)

Angel, now it's just a matter of a little work and you are on your way to making your first million.

Musk of Morova, the sensuous air of mystery and romance for under $100.00.

Angelina.It's my opinion and not itended to insult you; That's a boring overused commercial gift shop class of work, silouettes are.That kind of gifty kitsche stuff is pretty much in line with rose hip chips found in sickening gifty botiques and Hobby Lobby. It is like gingham geese cut-outs in country store.

Hmmm....I guess I will break my usual course of action and respond to you Snake.

Does that mean you won't be asking me to do a snake silhouette?

Ahh....Harold, first million? I wish but I think I could have a lot of fun with this and still work on other things that interest me at the same time. Getting my name out there will definitely be an improvement from my current visibility.

Angelina: I love the silhouette idea. Many years ago, when I was in kindergarten, a woman came to our class with a tiny pair of scissors and black paper. Each of us sat still while she did our "portrait", mounted them on white paper, then slipped each into a black mat with an oval cutout.

My mother adored it. She framed it and hung it in the hall. Over the years family photos changed constantly; grade school, junior high, sports, graduation, marriages...but the little framed silhouette never moved.

Mom passed 10 years ago and I have no idea what became of the silhouette. It's been years since I've thought of it.

Anyway...I think elementary schools would be excellent prospects.

Thank you for sharing that with me. There implies a classic elegance when it comes to silhouettes to me. I have always found their beauty timeless. I just started studying it myself, but I am very much enjoying it. There is an aspect of it, digitally, that I am also looking forward to exploring.

Schools are pretty touchy about what can and cannot be sold. But it is definitely worth looking into. Funding is cut so much that almost everything sold is to raise money for the schools.

Funding *is* touchy. You might explore the corporate sponsor route; approach a company that's already involved (or supports) education. Rough numbers here, just exploring — say a $2500 commitment, $1250 for you, $1250 for the school. Possibly 20 silhouettes. If you could manage two or three classes/schools per month that starts to work. PLUS, you'll pick up lots of larger assignments just being in the game.

Silhouettes and a Bonus

The idea sounds great but how does a person solicit corporate sponsoring for art? Much less making happen on a regular basis? There would definitely have to be some well thought out planning to go with this.

I kind of like the idea of maybe teaching the kids how to make them. Lot of possibilities.

Perfect timing Roger lol. It's amazing how much music changes, I like the innocence of older music.

That's actually the easy part. Look at school websites, newsletters, walk through the halls and look at posters for plays, sporting events, etc. Who are the local (and sometimes national) companies supporting the school? Who are the businesses buying sports and band uniforms/equipment? Those are your targets, and their competitors. Then just call them.

You'll feel like you're fumbling your way through trying to land the first one. But once you have one, you'll know exactly how to pick up 20 more if you want them.

Angelina,

This is especially for you

LOL....the easy part? You think so huh? The very idea is highly intimidating to me. Man...talk about reaching out of my comfort zone.
It could be really great though....I am going to start working on a plan for this. :)

Roger!!!!! I love it!!!!!! :)

I never heard that one before. Thank you.

Visit Rossello Damiano: ART, ARTIST, CURATOR, GALLERY


INVITATION

@ Cara,

I would make sure you do your homework if your considering a coffee table book.--experience talking here.

Bound books of any sort are not the cheapest item to produce----printers make you deals if you run big numbers.

Check out the art stores or book stores bargain bins---lots of these types of things laying around-----also I'm not sure how the book market even is nowadays---Amazon offering online books etc.

One I started recently using is engraved pencils and pens. Still exploring its opportunities. What I'm keeping in mind here is potential customer accessibility.

Here's the site, but there are others:

http://www.lazerdesigns.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Product_Code=P628&Screen=PROD&Category_Code=06grip

I think there is room for some skunk oil fragrances among the mix here, all the goody ideals an everything plus shadow pictures. A fragrance will do the trick and move the yer on to write that check.

Wonderful discussion here. Very good ideas!

I don't know if I mentioned this in my previous posts but this is very important. For those of you who wish to follow my lead by making a CD or DVD of your portfolios and mailing/giving them away as a self promotion, please be sure to make small jpegs of your work and not large tiffs, pdfs or any other large format image that can be printed and sold. If you do, you will be giving the individual the right to sell your work in print form. Your images should only be around 100kb - 120kb in size. These are just small thumbnails which can be seen on his monitor but not useable for anything else.

Harold, thank you for this very helpful information. Some great advice and marketing ideas here.

Your DVD covers are awesome! DVD cover 3 is my favorite!

Harold..your advice about the vet is timely..I live in a section of Nashville that is a little neighborhood unto itself....there's a little center with a few really great restaurants, a couple of little markets and other stores and the only other thing is a vet and a pet adoption place. The vet is my vet so they all know me in there. They have a cat who just sits around, on the counter, at the window, he walks in and out of the examining rooms like he owns the place. He's a gorgeous cat..looks like he may be a Maine Coon. I took photos of him and will do a painting as a gift to all of them for taking such good care of my cats. If they were to hang it up, so many pet owners would see it so it could be a huge marketing tool for me as everyone around here seems to own a pet and they all seem to go to that vet. If I ever get the painting done and it gets hung up I'll let you know if it actually attracts commissions.

Harold, your timing could not be better. I will soon be retiring, and the artistic side of life has always come easier than the marketing. I especially like your advise about going where others are not. Thank you for creating this thread, and for sharing your experience and expertise.

Wow, Harold, those DVD covers grab one's attention. They are terrific.

Thanks for giving these tips on marketing one's art. I live in small town USA and not many chances here for sales. I have taught classes though and that helped. Please continue giving these tips.

Thank you people. I enjoy giving these tips because if it saves you some time from wasting precious time then great. Any fisherman knows what a waste of time it is throwing his line into water that hasn't any fish.

Natalie, give it your best shot.I am sure you will wind up with commissions as a result of your painting.

Hiya Richard, I have been retired (from a full time job) for 9 years now and I'm getting very busy with commissions and book covers. Welcome and good luck.

Thank you Rhonda. Although those DVD covers look very simple in their design, they took a lot of time in thought. They were well worth the effort I put into them. I picked up a lot of work from them.

I would like to point out here a difference from a professional and an amateur. A professional puts as much time and effort into selling himself as he did when he was employed at his job selling products for somebody else. What you have to ask yourself is this; "Who is more important to you a client whom you will probably never see again after your painting or project has been paid for or you who you're supporting for the rest of your life and who you see the first thing in the morning when you brush your teeth?" That's why you have to spend some time in marketing the most important person in your life - you.

An amateur looks at this marketing as a job he will get to when he has the time for it. I wonder if he had that same attitude when he was working for somebody else? Did he say, "OK boss, I will get to it when I have the time for it." No he didn't because he knew he would be fired if he did that more than once.

That's the way you have to look at your marketing or anything else you do to promote the guy who will be supporting you for the rest of your life.

Hi Hall
I actually did that for years (a CD Portfolio). If was interactive, even had a game on it with all my 3D stuff, works pretty well , I mailed them out to possible clients or job applications, only issue was that although the interactive CD was of a very high standard (no point doing it otherwise) it could only play on PC computers and not Mac.

Being the world of Graphic Design , many used Mac, So I was only hitting about half my contacts. I found however that it is worth while to put in a hard copy print of one of your best works with contact details on the front, as CD is out of mind unless its playing, can't see it when its not, however a art work on his desk of notice board is a constant reminder, The CD is only fleeting, Fleeting could apply to computers in General off is off, as if they never existed.

This was like a birthday gift to me (this discussion page). My birthday is not even happening.

I wonder about the smell thing.
How one can produce a smell product?? Isnt it for chemistry majored specialists??? I would love to make a smell, but this is a serious investment, no?

About the coffee books. Did you mean "portfolio". I have never heard this term coffee books before, sorry maybe because I am not fluent in english.


I also agree with Dan Turner about the silhouettes. In Finland, it is very appreciated even it is popular.

I would like to have an exhibition in USA in the future, but is it impossible?? I dont have any vet or library person to contact to. If anyone is interested, I would love to participate in group exhibition in there.

I also can organize an exhibition possibility in Finland in case you guys love -20 C degrees...But it is beautiful in summer, specially my town TURKU.

Sorry for throwing too many different topics. For some reason, I feel very familiar and comfortable in here even I dont know you all!!!
Tahnkssss!
:)

This is a good discussion. Thanks for sharing these things with us Harold. I admire your artwork. Best wishes, Fred

Hiya Mario, In the Mac you can create different formatted images using Photoshop. The reason I said to make jpegs is because that is a universal format which any computer can open as long as the size isn't to big for their hard drive. Like you I had very good luck with agencies when I sent my work in a CD format. I made sure it was sent to the right person. In the CD I included my work history, samples of my work, cover letter and any awards That I had received. I also used these as a leave behind.

Sibel, there are a lot of galleries in the NYC area but you have to be careful as to which ones you choose because some of them only want your money just to give you a very small area on one of their walls. If I were you I would first get myself a reputable agent or rep who could do all of that for you. Also a good rep can pick up work for you that will be the kind you want to do in order to get recognized.

Thank you Fred old friend.

Skunk oil, snake oil, any kind of stinkum will work to make money.

How do you get a rep?

Harold, thank you for this discussion. I am following. I have been painting full time since 1993. I spend the daytime painting, and promoting,etc. at night. You are right, a pro doesn't think as marketing as a bother or waste of time, it is just part of the job!

Absent marketing is not just a matter of lack of motivation. Having no clue where to start is a real problem.

This is a great discussion.

Angel, artists' reps are listed all over the internet. All you have to do is knock on the right door. Here are some to check into:
http://www.artpromote.com/rep.shtml
http://www.workbook.com/photography/representatives#page=1
http://biznik.com/articles/gallery-representation-vs-artist-representation
http://www.lindgrensmith.com/
http://imagesite.com/reps/repsylpgs.html

You're very welcome Patti.

CDs for marketing was pretty good back in the...70s? 80s? These days you'll want to make use of a website, opt-in email list and social media.

Dan I disagree with you. They are still one heck of an advertisement for an artist. As far as a website goes, of course, that is taken for granted. But a CD or DVD which has multimedia links to news and other websites is still the second best self promo for an artist. The best is a person to person interview.

Agreed, there is no substitute for face-to-face. Or picking up the phone and making some calls. The only thing that trumps both of those is a qualified, growing, opt-in email list.

But CDs and DVDs are practically prehistoric now. Even Netflix knows that. Multimedia, news, links...all of that can be done faster and cheaper directly on the Internet, not to mention easily updated.

Dan, an email list is the same as a telephone book. Without a reminder of who you are (images) you are easily forgotten. When I was working as Art Director in NYC I had email lists as long as your arm just as a phonebook or roledex does. I used to do freelancing for this small agency in NYC. My contact had asked me to send in pictures and extra cards that he could keep on his desk. He explained to me that anybody who got work from him had to appear on his desk that day or no work. Well, I sent him my DVD cover. I got a lot of work from him because he kept my DVD cover on his desk every day.

Don't get me wrong, email lists are good just as DVDs, phone calls, interviews or anything else that gets you that work. You have to try everything because you don't know what the person you are trying to impress likes or what pushes his button. I tried everything when I was in business and I had every thing sent to me when I was hiring artists. When I was hiring freelancers the thing that bothered me the most was the constant phone call barrage. I kept accurate records with my secretary and my rolodex. I didn't need or want freelancers to keep my phone busy.

No, not a general email list...an opt-in email list, made up exclusively of people who are already familiar with your work and have specifically asked you to keep in touch. Two completely different things.

AKA Permission-based marketing. I'll elaborate if you are not familiar.

You recommended some places, and I will check them out, thank you.

Do you think artists ought to get reps? Why or why not?

Love this thread Hal, so informative and helpful, thanks again .....

Harold did mention email, so:

Here are instructions to add a simple link to your FAA (or any side) artworks in your electronic signature of your emails (provided you're using Microsoft Outlook or other supporting electronic signature software)

1. Prepare a small image of one of your artworks (about 2 x 1 or 1 by 2, etc.)
2. Open your MS Outlook, find and select...... "Tools"
3. Then find and select........ "Options"
4. When the pop-up appears, select the ......"Mail Format" tab.
5. Find and select .........."Signature"

Here you will find two filler screens, one titled "Select Signature to edit"(Smaller box) and "Edit Signature" (larger box.)

6. In the smaller box .......(Select Signature to edit) type in your name, and to the right make sure your Email Account is selected.
7. In the larger box .......(Edit Signature) include the relative information, for example:

336-xxx-xxxx
your return email address (if you wish)
Please select the image to visit my artsite: (or something like this)
And, please let others know. (or any other message you wish)
Thank you. (or other conclusion)

8. Now, insert the small image you created earlier by copying and pasting it below the "Thank you"

9. Once the image is inserted inside the "Edit signature" box. Note that just outside the box, on the far top righthand corner is a globe with a chain link symbol. Select it.

10. Another popup will appear called "Edit Hyperlink"
11. At the bottom of the popup, find......."Address" and in the blank space type in your artsite or FAA site address. Example for me it's:

http://tony-marquez.artistwebsites.com/featured/the-garden-stream-tony-marquez.html

(You can get your website address by going directly to your site and copying the http off the top of the display page.)

12. Select OK, and close off the remaining pop-up screens. You're done.

Now, when you prepare an email, your information will automatically appear on the email page. Anyone you're sending a messgae to will see your signature on the bottom of the page along with the "hotlink" image and its instructions. All they have to do is select the image and be immediately
directed to your website.

if you have problems just let me know, directly. Have fun.

To my techno-minded friends, it's important to take advantage of every "economically" viable opportunity. I would like to add to Dan's information by including RSS. This area can have some pretty interesting results but must be exploited.

Thank you Tony for that information.

Personally I use QuarkXpress and have been for over 15 years and very happy with it. This is why I wouldn't be too popular today if I were looking for a full time position because I hate InDesign and have no desire to learn it. I believe there is room for every program that you are comfortable with. But most art departments today are using Photoshop, InDesign, Illustrator all on the Mac.

You won't find any Dells, IBMs or any other PCs in an art department in NYC. I won't listen to anybody who disagrees with that because I know it to be true. For you beginners out there who want to work as a professional graphics artist, take up the Mac.

Harold,

I use Photoshop CS4 extensively. The instruction I provided are just for sending out emails with a hotlink image that will drive back to a personal art site when selected. It's pretty easy to create without having to constantly end an email by retyping some redundant info.

The RSS feed is a way to get your message out to people who voluntarily join your message feed group. This is a bit more complicated to establish.

I know that Mac are a bit better in handling graphics; and therefore, a preferred system. I'm, however, a dedicated Dell user because I do quite a lot of non-art work that include MS Excel and MS Access and other office products.

Great topic.

Hal, may I add this thread to the How To?

Adobe software (Illustrator, InDesign, Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Acrobat, Flash Catalyst, Fireworks, Lightroom, etc) is fully cross-platform. The software is identical on both Macs and PCs.

Prior to using Photoshop, I also used GIMP, pretty good in the pinch and it's free.

Any kind of stinkum.

Harold
Yes many use Mac's but I have also noticed a trend towards PC, several magazine publishers here and an animation studio all switched to PC as there is no real advantage to Mac these days. At one time the operating system seemed more art user friendly, then it was that the Mac monitor way better but now many mac's actually have PC monitors so its all pretty even.

However there is the ongoing problem with programs, it seems most only want adobe anything, but many programs by other names work as will, some better.

And some are so in love with the imagined power of their programs that I have on a number of occasions encountered the following when looking for work.

This is fact (perhaps it only happens in Australia) but on several occasions when introducing myself as artist or Graphic designer and inquiring about a possible opening I was answered with.... No we are right thanks, we have Photoshop !

I used to respond, now I just leave , knowing they are total idiot's.

Thank you Tony. I know but I have always targeted my emails to certain people about the projects they were working on. I never dealt with bulk emails because I didn't have any need to. I never retype anything, I copy and paste.

Hiya Beth, I would be very happy if you did.

Dan, you seem to be a very argumentative person who likes to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. I'm too old to get into arguments with youngsters like yourself. Life is too short. If that is what you believe then fine but what I am telling you here in this thread is what I have learned in my past 49 years of working as an artist. I am always open to learn something new and have an open mind but I am telling you this from working in Madison Avenue advertising agencies NYC publishing houses and NYC art studios, I have never (Let me repeat myself) I have never seen one PC computer in any of the many, many art departments that I have been in charge of or worked in.

Hiya Mario, you are probably right in that they are introducing some PCs into art departments down there in Australia but I always like to work with odds. Let's say that 90%of the art departments down there use Macs and 10% use PCs. Which computer would you rather master?

Hi Harold I don't know if you missed my q but could you tell me I'd you hunk artists should get reps?

Harold, I just pointed out that Adobe's software works identically on either platform. Artists can even trade files back and forth (yes; since about 1999); the platform makes no difference. That is easy enough to confirm. This means it doesn't matter which machine an artist has learned on...s/he will be able to confidently handle whichever the employer has.

I didn't question your claim that there are no PCs in NYC art departments. And that's only because you're too darn jumpy!

Angel, all you have to do is start calling on the phone reps (from the lists I sent you) asking if they are interested in taking a new artist into their coral of talent. If they are, send them jpeg samples of your work for review. The reason I mentioned jpegs is because jpegs are one of the formatted images that any computer will recognize. I am not going to take the time mentioning certain formats that PCs can't open. If they are interested in taking you on as one of their artists, they will ask you to send them cover letters, resumes and PDF samples of your art. Don't send them all of that information unless they ask you to because it will end up in their trash since they already have tons of images in their files. Unless this rep is a beginner, chances are he already has many artists that he is sponsoring. Yes Angel, it is that simple but not easy. You may have to send your images to a hundred reps before you find the right one. If there is another way of finding a rep, I am not aware of it.

Dan, you are wrong in assuming that any computer PC or Mac can operate any program. First there are updates that have to be taken into consideration and also the Mac can usually operate most programs wheras the PCs can't operate programs that are specifically developed for the Macs. Yes, Adobe puts out 2 versions of each program in duplicate forms - one for the Mac and one for the PC. But the fact still remains that the Mac is a superior computer than the PC because it is more user friendly and protects itself against 'most' viruses. Since my time is divided between work and covering this site, I have no interest or time in defending everything I say to people like you. I have received many emails from people here at FAA telling me how informative this topic is and to ignore the argumentative people because that is a distraction for them.

Lastly, after spending all those years in NYC advertising agencies and art departments, do you really think that you make me jumpy? Really!? The only person who makes me jumpy nowadays is a little woman who sleeps with me every night. So from here on in if you care to join in here in a positive way, great, but if you constantly ask me to reaffirm everything I say then I will ignore you.

Getting down to business again.

From here on in I am going to discuss the ways of exploring the paths to becoming a professional artist and what most professionals did just to get their feet in the front doors of most advertising agencies.

First I want to establish the ranks of an art department.

1. Graphic Artist. Although this artist is very important in getting the job done, he is more or less at the bottom of the totem pole, They used to call this artist a 'Mechanical artist.'

2. Graphic Designer. This guy is one step up from the Graphic Artist because he can occasionally be called into the creative meetings.

3. Art Director This guy crosses both lines- he can be involved in Creative meetings and also works hands on in the art department. This is the position where the owner of the company has flexibility in the salaries. Instead of giving the artist the salary he deserves, the owner will say the salary isn't that good but you will be a boss. That's why you will find a lot of unqualified artists with the 'Art Director' handle. About the only thing they usually get to direct is themselves.

4. Creative Director This person is usually the top honcho in an art department. He can be a Creative Director from the 'copy' side or a Creative Director from the 'art side.' Personally I have always felt that the Creative Director who came from the art side of the coin is much more creative and knowledgeable about the field. Most Creative Directors from the copy side (that I have known) are very limited in the design aspect of advertising. This is why large agencies have both Creative Directors.

5. Recently added titles to an art department. Art Buyers.. This is a relatively new person in the art department. He keeps records/examples of different freelance artists' styles. So when you are trying to get the person's name who you want to send your digital portfolio to, a good person to ask for is The Art Buyer. In most advertising agencies the Creative Directors are so busy they will tell their secretaries things like - "tell them I'm busy or tell them I haven't any work." Chances are you would have gotten much better reception with the Art Buyer.

Many times you can't get beyond a receptionist because she is the dark horse leader in most agencies. I am giving you other doors to enter through in order to get yourself recognized.

Thank you Harold, do you think an artist should seek out and get a rep though?

"Dan, you are wrong in assuming that any computer PC or Mac can operate any program. "

Harold, for god's sake, no one has made such a statement.

Adobe's art/design programs operate identically on both platforms. If one learns Photoshop or Illustrator on the PC, those work exactly the same on a Mac.

That's a *good* thing, Harold, and worth knowing.

Incidentally, the mac/pc debate ended somewhere around the late 90s.

Oh boy...

Yes I do Angel. A good rep knows who has the work, knows the person who is giving out that project and lastly is usually on a first name basis with the client who is handing out the work. Just finding the work can be 75% of the job. Your job is painting, their job is finding names.

I'd like to join in the discussion also. Never have done this yet, so hope I'm in the right spot

I think a good way to market yourself as an artist is to enter contests. Locally (your nearby artist association) or online at various places, like The Artist Magazine.

Bonnie this may be good for seasoned artists but not so good for beginners and amateurs. After loosing more than a few contests, a beginner may say to himself, "What's the Use?" As I said above, I always like to work the odds. I go where the odds are more in my favor. In a post above about sales I mentioned to an artist, who was looking to sell her paintings, to count the artists. If there were 150 artists there, then that's your odds in a sale...150 to one.

Likewise if you have entered into a show to win a prize, count the total amount of paintings at the show. Say the average number of paintings in the show is 20 and the number of artists at that show is 150, then your odds are 3,000 to 1 in winning. Now, that's not how it goes with a professional because he goes around counting the number of artists at his level of expertisé. I entered many contests before I started to win.

None of this information pertains to the art contests here at FAA. All of those contests are based on how many friends you have.

Dan...and my debate ended with you at 1:44 pm, February 22, 2011.

This thread should really be regarded as more of a memoir from someone who's heyday was from the late 1960s to the mid 1980s and not as career advice for someone in 2011.

Better title: A senior citizen's nostalgic journey down commercial art memory lane.

Not that there's anything wrong with that!

Harold, I too believe in playing the odds, I have also become more aggressive or have tried to be in myself marketing although I might add I am not a good sales person. My question would be for a resume as a painter who does not have a lot of formal training but has supplemented his income on the side for years. What would be a good format to use? Does including references or dollar values pertain? Although I have sold 5 paintings in the past year, 4 of which were commission, is it really needed? Reason I ask is that as I spend more time doing it I’m thinking of trying to get into a few of the local venues and galleries.

Hiya Mark,

As far as resumes go for painters, I have seen some artists using these at art shows, These can also be used for writing a short statement at the bottom of the resume, about what you are trying to accomplish with your art.

The format I always use in my business stationery is flush left, the formatted program I use is a PDF.

You should never include the price of what somebody paid you for a painting. I always mention this to my customers. The price they paid is between you and them. Including prices for work on display is entirely up to you.

Does including references or dollar values pertain? Although I have sold 5 paintings in the past year, 4 of which were commission, is it really needed?

Nothing is carved in stone Mark. It's how you want to sell yourself. That's the only thing that counts. Getting into the local venues and galleries is the first step of getting yourself recognized.

Dan, I can't believe how unbelievably rude you are being here. Harold has started a fantastic thread here, if you don't like the advice why not just step out of the conversation instead of staying here to heckle? Better yet, if you think the info he is giving is antiquated, why don't you start your own marketing thread?

The idea of developing a brochure or looking for a rep raises many questions I don't have an answer for such as what do I want to accomplish with my work? I don't know. Lots of things to think about.

It still never hurts to enter contests. You never know when you may be excepted, or win a prize. Even just getting your art into the local gallery for others to see is good.

Just ignore him Angel, he does this in every conversation in FAA. You're right, there is a lot to think about.

Bonnie, you're right about that but most prizes don't put dinner on the table or pay the rent.

I'm happy to have the notoriety. This always helps in getting your name out there.

Great information Harold!
I feel similar with Angelina about reps. I appreciate Harold mentioned about reps. I always knew I need a rep, but I could never HIRE a rep. Does this mean I need to pay a salary? After reading the messages, I believe that it works a bit different, no?

I am not from USA, so I am not sure if I am allowed to have a rep from USA. Do you guys know anything about this matter?

I have been organizing exhibitions since 2000, and it is about time for me to JUMP! I guess I was spending my time and energy in wrong possibilities of commercialising myself (bytheway, sorry for the strange english).

I did win in graphic design in a logo competition, but I never applied for any art competition. I am not interested in competitions, it makes me feel nervous.

As a graphic designer, my streingh is the logo design. This is how I was marketing my company belgrafik.com. I also can give as many possibilities as the client needs for the logo selection. However, my art part in paintings and drawings, I can advertise it in any how. I just think each work is so complex to describe that how can I advertise my art in a plain, simple, general text?

At the moment I am using garbage in my art. My upcoming exhibition is going to be in here Daejeon, South Korea. And I am spending a serious amount of money for this gallery just for one week exhibition. It will be in April. The name is going to be "It is ALL misunderstood!". I got this "famous" gallery through a highly respected graphic design professor in here who has recommended them me for the exhibition possibility. Otherwise I could never approach them by my own. Why not?

Sibel, no you don't have to pay a rep a salary. They make money when you make money. But they may make as much as 40% of what you make so be prepared.

It looks like I am going back to NYC to work full time so I won't be able to manage this thread on a minute by minute basis. I will be checking it out in the evenings.

Congratulations Hal!!

Thank you Hal for this thread, I just stumbled upon it today. I only started painting in 2009 after I retired from full time work. I have marketed myself on facebook, with my own website, with flyers in letterboxes, hanging a few pieces in a local art society gallery and making up some brochures that I unfortunately haven't distributed yet. I am going to start taking my easel out in the local community and just paint in public where people can come and look and perhaps be interested in buying. I'm having an exhibition by myself at a gallery in March so I will see how that goes.
I also just started learning photoshop and doing digital art work and I've stuck prints of it into a book and made a powerpoint presentation of it that I am going to play over and over at my exhibition on a big screen TV.
The only places I've actually advertised my art for sale is on internet sites like this one. No sales yet. :(
I'm going to see a guy next week who is employed by the government to promote artists and the arts in this part of Queensland and see what his suggestions might be.
All your advice is invaluable Hal and thanks so much for sharing with us amateurs and noobies (even if I'm older - or a senior citizen Dan would probably say) :)

Hiya Kate,
Seem to me that you have a handle on promoting yourself. Don't give up on any one thing you are creating to market yourself. Sometimes it takes a little time before something catches on and catapults you to some lucrative sales and work.

Hello again guys,

Well, I would like to continue this thread from the professional side of the coin. While I worked in the City last week I met the techie for the agency and we became quick friends. His name is George and he is the guy behind the computers and many other company's computers since he works on call. George was telling me how very bad it is out there for everyone. He said people really don't know just how bad it is. He has lost over half of his clients from either cutbacks or companies going out of business. So for you to try and get a handle on this you must realize that your competition isn't just the college kids graduating but all of the other professionals who are being layed off.

You have to try to stand out in the crowd in order to be recognized. I told this story before but it is worth repeating especially now with the crowds of people looking for the few jobs. Years ago I was looking for an art director's position but without any results so one day I read an ad in the paper that was for an art director with credentials that matched my own. My thought was to get my resumé beyond the receptionist so I made a label to put on the envelope that held my resumé and cover letter. It read, "Open quickly because your next Art Director is trapped inside!" It worked and I was hired. Some time later, after the owner of the agency and I became good friends, he told me the reason he hired me was because I was the only candidate that showed any creativity.

I stood out in a huge crowd. Was I the best applicant, no I wasn't. But I was the lucky guy who got hired. Forget all the sob stories and woe is me. Go out and get the job or sell the painting because you stand out and above everybody else. That's the key to success in any field. Don't be fooled into believing that you're the best or even one of the best. There is a lot of talent out there.

The only reason I am working again at this advertising agency is because I am prepared to do the work. That is the other key to success. Be in the right spot at the right time but most importantly, be prepared to hit the ground running. Learn the computer and all of its programs. If you want to click in an art show, learn what turns people on to buying or not buying. Don't be painting tulips when everybody else is selling wildlife. Of course if you just want to do your own thing no matter what the costs are, then go out and starve. There are enough starving artists out there who will buy you a drink and cry alongside you.

This is a great story! I wish I read it last week! I just send my papers for MA degree program at Univ. Of Art & Design in Helsinki for Environment Art Dept. I wouldnt use the same trick, but I would definetly make it more creative and outstanding. I just made my CV, posrtfolio and study plan clean and clear. The creativity is in the portfolio I believe, I hope!

This story encourages me to not apply into the places in traditional safe way. It is a bit giving some spice that the viewer is looking for.

It is good to hear this from you, but not from a young unexperienced AD.

It is raining in Daejeon after longtime of sunshine!

Hal,

Your concise and "hit the nail on the head" writings make me feel like I'm an Editorial Illustration Major back at the Art Institute Of Boston in the late 1960's! Thanks for the memories!

Thank you Hal for letting us in on a bit of your knowledge... Much appreciated!

I like anything that's next to free. Restaurants are the best place especially if owners like your work and make you a permanent artist there. I have 3 like that at moment, the Sun monthly newspaper in New Mexico uses my images in their newspaper here there whenever they feel like it because I gave them my permission to do so as long as they give my credits. I give lots of work away to people who show my work. I allow websites to use my images along as they state credits. I paint in person at places I show at. I do the internet of course. I offer payment plans which work VERY well. I jump at just about every show I'm offered so I don't turn down anyone so they keep calling( Just got a last minute show this week, didn't want to do it, but had to to keep them calling,it's the 3rd I've done for them) There's more just can't think of it now.

Thank you Sibel. Sibel, being different isn't the answer because we are all different. Years ago the country was introduced to 'beatniks.' Many young people decided on looking sloppy, condemning the government, spreading flowers and other things that weren't that healthy. What they didn't realize was they lost their differences because everybody started looking and acting the same. The original beatniks were the bohemians who were mainly artists living on Cape Cod. They remained true to themselves, that is, until the popular beatniks made Cape Cod into a tourist attraction.

The trick is being unique. Make the people who you are trying to impress think you are the one and the only one for them because of your individual uniqueness. To accomplish this is a clever marketing job of yourself. Use your artistic creativity in solving this. Believe me when I tell you that there are millions of artists out there trying to accomplish this same feat.

Hiya Frank. There are enough back slappers and ego boosters out there without me becoming one too. I'm just trying to relate stories and antidotes of the problems that I faced when I was a struggling artist. The only way know how to do that is bulls eye talk. I was and am what they call a bulls eye designer. That's the kind of designer whose designs hit you right in the eye. There is nothing subtle about my designs or the way I talk. Sometimes that;s good and sometimes it gets my arse into trouble.

Well I feel I fit in the unique category. My stuff is not too busy and simplified( I lack patience to take too long though I could if I wanted) , but detailed enough to intrigue the viewer, lucky enough this was just a natural way of painting for me. I believe in what I do so much I push myself daily and get burnt out a lot. But I keep going because I believe in what I am doing.

Kathy, it's my pleasure.

Leah, you have the right idea. But just don't overdue it because one day when you want to charge somebody, he may say, "You gave it to them for free and you want to charge me?"

Harold the ones I give for free are gratuitous gifts. I totally charge. I have sold 6 originals to people I don't now since November 2 just this week. New york and California. But I want to keep people happy where I show there is always an artist to take my place. So permanent places are hard to come by and I want to keep mine. To have 3 I feel blessed. My goal of charge also as a reference for artist's is $250. a day for the painting which I usually get. A typical painting for me is about 3 days. except for minis.

Leah, I give art away too to my family and friends. But usually it's a print. As for my originals, they are for sale or after I die a legacy for my children. If I gave an original away, I would feel like I was stealing from my children. Sounds crazy, I know, but that's just how I feel.

I agree with that also, I have 3 kids,24,22, and11. But I also have over 500 paintings in my house. But I really feel so grateful to people who believe in me and support in what I do and want to show my gratitude back. I have been thinking of setting up a trust for my kids so the revenue from my art in the future is split 3 ways and they need to come to mutual decisions on other things down the line like royalties from book covers etc...anyway thats the dark side of the artist brain

I disagree with you Leah, I think that last thought is the bright side of an artist's brain.

lol, I think it's the realistic side. I think about death often so I say dark side so it might be different than you think. Because my brain is pessimist and not really an optimist. I can't explain why but can't seem to change my dark thoughts. I think it
's hereditary lol. All the family that were artistic on the Bryant side(my Dad's side )are dead only me and my sister are left.

Leah I am sorry to hear that. I think that the real important things in life are family and friends. Everything else is a distant second. I have lost all of my aunts and uncles, grandparents, my father and mother, a brother, brother-in-law, 2 nieces, and too many friends to mention here. I wish I could have just 1 day to tell them how much I miss them.

I have a hard time getting close to family and friends, I try though. I literally am like a scientist in my head and can't stop the flow of ideas. My Grandfather was a scientist so I think my head is confused with right and left side f the brain literally. There are also writers,professional musicians,dancers and painters in my genes. Life is like a big puzzle on canvas to me and trying to find the solution. Putting all the piece's together to form the outcome of a painting. Someday I will explain where I think why I paint the ideas I do but It's a secret for now. I agree we need to treasure those close to us. Thank God they put up with me I have to say.

I have given away originals to friends and family, I never regreted it. S
:) if my art is my gift, I don't see the problem with sharing it.

Wow what a discussion. I will definitely continue to follow this thread. I have always been an artist but just recently entered into this new world of selling. Right now I'm trying to do everything like show, contests, Facebook and of course business cards. Harold, you are a wealth of information. Thank you

Thanks for all your info. And.......your DVD designs are excellent. I had been in adv. design and illustration for years, thus try to recognize quality. Still it is not always easy for us to not only produce our art, but also be the marketer.....in all kinds of methods.

Hal and all,
Thanks so much for all the discussions. Very informative. I'm retiring soon from a 35 year Information Technology career and am taking baby steps to market my artwork. I'm gradually uploading my artwork to the FAA site, assisted by my husband Steve (in between juggling our full time jobs and mine and his current projects - he's been taking Reproduction Furniture classes and is currently making a hand carved tallboy and I'm knee deep in the current oil painting, 'Apple Blossoms'.

I have given away a number of originals at work (donated for Holiday Parties) and to some of my family and special friends. I also recently sent around the link to my FAA site to co-workers and friends via E-mail. I plan to visit local business to see if they will display my paintings. I also liked the idea of the doorknob hangers.

I recommend (especially for newbe's) a book I found about a year ago at the local bookstore, Art Marketing 101, by Constance Smith. I've found it particularly useful as a beginner to the art marketing world. Its a great planning tool. In fact, that's where I found the link to the FAA site...

Great comments from you all!

Harold, Yes! You are so right about being different or being the same in a community. I am in Korea at the moment, and this is THE PLACE where everyone is the same and everyone does things in THE SAME WAY! If you try to do a bit different, then you are either out or ignored. Even in the art world. I have been teaching art in here. I became popular because I teach a bit different from "Korean Art Teachers". The difference is I let the kids be more free in thinking and creating. The Korean Art teacher is making kids make what they should. And at the end the teacher would fix the kids works to a better direction for the parents to be pleased what they pay for. This is soooo opposite of Finland!

I like a lots of art in Korean, however the society is killing the new ideas and original thinking. It is very hard to stand out for your ownself in this country if you disagree with something. We all should just be glad that we have much more freedom to be and to express ourselves in the Western World.

I loved the works of Leah! It is like from the space!!! I admire the imagination!

hi guys
please join me on group "revolution of impressionist" and share it to everybody.

thank you very much

Angelina, there isn't any problem giving your art away. You just have to realize that it can create a conflict with your next buyer.

At this point I would like to explain how the value or price of your art is established by art buyers. Let's say I sold my last portrait (full figure) for $4,500. My next customer approaches me with a commission to paint his wife but only wants to pay $4,000...and since I needed the money I painted it for only $4,000. If my last customer found out about it he should be angry with me because I just devalued his painting by $500. Now you can say that you will never reveal to anybody else what your customers paid you for your portrait or you lie and say that he paid the same sum, $4,500. How far are you willing to carry this masquerade? Giving you art away won't devalue your paintings but it sure gives your next buyer some leeway of getting you to lower your price. I know it's nice to give a painting as a gift but it's also nice to buy something at the store and give that as a gift too. If you don't start to protect your art and the value of it nobody else will. Please don't get me wrong, I have given away some cartoons of people who had retired at my wife's office and people who had worked for me. But when it came to my paintings, that's an entirely different story..



Hiya Desiree, I'm happy you joined in. Take your time in getting familiar with all of the features that FAA offers you. It takes a little time to learn all of the different buttons.

Hiya Mary and welcome. I guess that is my expertisé, being able to get a handle on anything that taxes my creativity. As you well know, it's one thing to say you can do lots of different things such as, ads, cartoons, illustrations, portraits, book covers, it's another thing to be able to compete with the artists who specialize in those areas.

Good show Gail.

Sibel it's possible that you were hired by that school because you were unique. Whatever you do, don't loose that uniqueness.

I understand what you are saying. My art value is determined by how much I sell it for, so if I sell it for less, it's worth less.

Angelina I'm going to tell you what a famous artist told me years ago. He said, "If you want to sell some art at a smaller price, then paint smaller paintings." That may sound like a joke but it's not.

OOOOps, double post

"If my last customer found out about it he should be angry with me because I just devalued his painting by $500."

Only if both of your customers have the exact same wife in the exact same pose, same size art, same medium, same lighting, same location, etc. :-) If it's a *different* painting each time, then that's custom work and custom work = custom pricing.

Several factors affect the price of commissions:

-- Photographic reference. Who's taking the photos? Are they high quality or snapshots? Are you expected to change them liberally or follow them closely?

-- The subject. Will they be sitting for you the whole time, part time or not at all? Do they figit? Do they need frequent breaks?

-- Size of the finished work. There is likely a cost difference between a 30" full figure portrait and an 8-foot full figure portrait.

-- Usage. Would you charge the same for these two portraits?

1) A portrait of your neighbor's wife hanging in your working-class neighbor's living room.

2) A portrait of a woman who has just donated $20 million for a new hospital wing, and whose portrait will grace the entrance to that wing (and must have committee approval) and will also be used on all future fund-raising literature?

-- Approval process. Some clients need a lot of hand-holding and reassuring throughout the process. Sometimes they want to bring in family and friends for feedback before they give final approval. That kind of thing can extend a project for months. Other clients say "You're the artist!" and accept anything you give them no questions asked. Should these two clients be charged the same amount?

Unless you're doing one-size-fits-all art, commodity pricing doesn't make any sense.

I am going to say pricing never makes any sense to me. I am terrible at it, it makes me very umcomfortable because I don't what I should set my prices at....and it generally gives me a headache.

Those are good points Dan because every situation will not be the same if it's a portrait situation. But what about every other subject? If I do an abstract and price it $500 for a 30 by 30 painting, but sell a painting of realistic flowers the same size but for just 200, I think a buyer could feel ripped off.

Size seems relative too Harold. I think of an 18 by 24 as a big painting, then I was told by a winery that they didn't want small paintings. It had to be 30by30 or larger.

There are two distinct areas of art marketing and pricing, and Harold is mixing the two together in this thread.

1) Fine art. This is art that you produce from your soul, using your vision. You may eventually cultivate a following of patrons who eagerly await your next work, but they have no creative input into your creative process. All of your fine art is "spec" work (short for speculative). Some pieces may never find a buyer.

2) Commercial art. This is "assignment" art or "commission" art and always has a client attached to it prior to producing anything. Specifications can be very tight or very loose, but the client's satisfaction is the ultimate goal. Getting paid on commercial work is not an option. Even if the client never uses your art, you still get paid.

Norman Rockwell was a commercial artist through most of his career, even though his work today is widely recognized as fine art.

If I do an abstract and price it $500 for a 30 by 30 painting, but sell a painting of realistic flowers the same size but for just 200, I think a buyer could feel ripped off.

Not at all. Original art is original art — you may sell it for whatever you and a buyer agree on. Each piece is unique, each buyer is unique.

If you become a "thing" in the art world the market will take over and dictate the price of your art. People may be buying not for the art, but for the investment, which starts to have nothing whatever to do with you. You can't affect it if you try. The overwhelming majority of artists are not there and never will be.

Most successful artists have two things going for them:

1) They create good art.

2) Their buyers like them and want them to succeed. Thus, selling yourself is even more important than selling your art.

here are two distinct areas of art marketing and pricing, and Harold is mixing the two together in this thread. Dan

I can see by this comment that our friend Dan didn't read all of my posts. If you had read all of my posts Dan, you would have seen that I was dealing with both sides of the coin, professionally/commercial and fine arts.

Unless you're doing one-size-fits-all art, commodity pricing doesn't make any sense. Dan is right in that one size doesn't fit all but what I was trying to explain is how you can get an idea of how to price your paintings in a consistent way so as not to hurt your customers/buyers when they invest into your art. Dan is also wrong into believing that buyers don't understand the business of buying for as little as possible so they can sell at a larger price.

Now if Dan has painted that many portraits (I don't see that in his portfolio) I will step down and let him take over this thread. But Dan just likes to jump in an disagree with anything for an argument.

I'm all for anybody jumping in here to add to this discussion but I don't have the time in defending everything I say so Dan why don't you go and play in somebody else's playpen for awhile unless you have something constructive to add here instead of disagreeing with everything I say.

Lighten up, Harold. I'm helping you here.

This is a forum for FAA members. Members get to comment. Did you forget?

If you want to get all disagreeable you go right ahead. But if you expect 100% passive agreement and accolades, you're in the wrong forum.

Harold,

I'd be happy to jump in and comment. Personally, I see Dan makes very valid points in this discussion...that is if indeed it is an open discussion for others to make comments.

-Art

Arthur, this is an open forum and I am always open to constructive critiques as well as helpful comments.

I am of the opinion that it is wise, yes wise--to not be concerned about anything regarding what a potential buyer may think or a buyer may have thought for their motive for owning our works of art. Who cares? It's not vacuume cleaners or alarm systems or stocks & bonds. It's no different to be paid commissions for a pet portrait than to be paid for a landscape painting or a portrait of a Souix warrior.

It's artwork. Artist's want it to be respected. That's all.

Well I think Harold has made valid points, The way I understand them, don't undersell yourself, Have some consistency in pricing. Dan makes a point that being art many things could vary so the cost can vary. But I still think you need to price similar work in a similar way otherwise it makes no sense to the buyer.

One needs to be consistent just as one needs to be consistent if one has work in a gallery but sells some direct, your not going to do business with the gallery if you undersell from the studio, Consistent is the name of the game I feel.

As for the value, one needs to compare it to what other professionals are getting so one can be in the game, too cheap and the client will think there must be something wrong with it, too expensive and you reduce your amount of people to sell to. But its totally individual in the end. But your product only has value if you ensure it is not attainable for free or next to free.

I dissagree with consistant being marketable on at least on the high end of society. Consistant though is great for industrial products which are not art. Unusual and interesting is what sells.

I want to thank you for posting this thread Harold, IŐve picked up some really good points reading through it.

I do believe Dan has some valid points about differing art prices regardless if it is commissioned or not. I also believe that artworks go up and down depending on what the market will bear, how well known an artist or work is, etc.

Alan Bamberger, a leading authority specializing in research, appraisal, and more, would probably disagree with the whole aspect of price consistency especially in a sluggish economy. In his website article ŇSelling Artwork in a Weak EconomyÓ he states artists should adjust their prices: ŇThe number one consideration for any artist in the thick of riding out a slow market and selling less artwork is to get flexible fast, particularly with respect to prices, particularly with respect to adjusting them in an increasingly affordable direction.Ó

The full article can be read here: http://www.artbusiness.com/econosell.html

The client is a major part of the pricing equation. Some clients only want "some color on that wall." Others aren't happy unless they can say "That's an original Rocklin Pearce."

To that end, it pays big dividends to identify and understand your buyers.
-- What is their income bracket?
-- How often do they purchase art?
-- Do they own a variety of art, or are they mostly interested in a narrow area?
-- Do they buy other artists, or just you?
-- What other interests do they have? Golf? Travel? Cars? Charity?
-- How did they find you?

Once you've worked up profiles on even 5-10 of your buyers, patterns will emerge. Now, instead of blindly marketing to "everybody" you can market specifically to them and to people like them. Now you can begin to understand who they are and how to reach more of them.

Dan, who or what group would you consider to be the best target market you are shooting for in terms of sales strategy?

Over the years, these are the people who tend to buy my work:

Internet-savvy travelers who play golf, generally have 2nd & 3rd homes, live in uncluttered environments, buy a variety of art/artists, read a lot, like to "go out", appreciate nice things and own their own businesses.

You can substitute golf for tennis, flying, skiing, hunting, boating, mountain-climbing, etc, but there is usually a major sporting component.

I've been up in Sedona. It's an exclusively wealthy community with all the things you have described. The persons who work in the hotels and restaurants are unable to afford living there and have to go down the mountain a bit for affordable housing I have been told.

Sedona is a "tourista" town and although it's beautiful I could not wait to get away from it .I couldn't go fast enough down that chilly mountain toward Prescott and down to the desert. I loved the jeep trail ride company though and the orange sunsets reflecting on the mountain canyons and cliffs.

Dan
I do not think I understand what your saying. It sounds as if you market a painting to the person buying, so if it is working class it goes for an average amount but if the same painting when to a millionaire you would charge a very much higher price for the same work.

If thats the case then your not valuing or putting a value on your work at all but simply seeing how much you can get away with depending on how much the buyer has to spend. I would not do that, for me that would be unethical.

Seeing what the market will bear is in my opinion unethical, always has been and always will be. If art is about expressing one's self, about ones true self then one needs to price it true as well and this should not vary too much.

Vincent disagrees he says and feels it ok for industrial art but totally does not like consistent pricing in fine art. Well unless your marketing to the top of the top, in which case all ethics gets thrown in the wind and not only is the art often a con but so is the price, well most of us are not there, our clients vary, but they are all pretty much the same as people and will wonder why the rich chain store owner had to pay 10 times the price.

I am fine with the idea that you sell a small painting for $10,000 but your other stock is more in the range of $1,500 even if they are bigger, this is fine, by consistent I mean that the $10,000 dollar painting goes to the worker, or the president for $10,000. You don't suddenly get dollar signs in your eyes and ripe off because you think you can. What ever the price for that work is the price for any buyer of that work, thats consistent, anything other will destroy your business integrity if it gets uncovered.

That there is good art out there which is practically worthless while there is ugly and poor art oiut there which is nearly priceless is what I simply
hate about the "artworld". Who is "known" and whos is "collectible" is bull in my opinion. I see it everywhere where people try seling "known" artist's "collectible" work. To me if it is mediocrte it is nothing more. I do not care who did it. I will buy a frame with one og =f these types's work in it and throw that picture away to keep and use that frame.

My point is that the "art game" is based upon a false pretence without any substance. Yes if you are a dentist you need accredation but to be accepted into the "CAA" for example is bull.

"I do not think I understand what your saying. It sounds as if you market a painting to the person buying, so if it is working class it goes for an average amount but if the same painting when to a millionaire you would charge a very much higher price for the same work."

Hi Mario; In the millionaire/working class example above I was comparing custom, commissioned work. Even if the paintings were to be the same size, the one for the hospital wing carries far more weight, more approval processes, more after-market use, more expectations and more risk. So yes, it's more expensive to create.

In the case of reproductions, like here at FAA, the prices are the same for everyone. The work has been "commoditized", so to speak.

Regarding excessive expenditures for art: The important issue is not "what the market will bear," but what is the art worth to the buyer? Not to you, to the buyer? If someone says "I'll pay you $40,000 for that piece" do you say "Thank You" or do you say "No thank you! I always get $3000 for something like this. Please, keep your money!"

Thank you Dan, I used the wrong term "market will bear" you've explained it much better.

Dan
Your last two comments do make sense, I look forward to the day a client volunteers a much larger amount then I had in mind, to date its always been the other way around. Only when working through another agency does the request for a higher price occur as its making their request look crazy if mine is way lower. It never amazes me how the in between guy that actually has little input seems to never feel bad about jacking the price through the roof.

Well the spell check does not work here. And my eyes are not so tired now. OK.

I am a collector and buy only quality art and am stressed to pay for the asking price. Don't you think that this is they way it is everywhere? No person can get away with charging wealthy persons more for art except on rare occasions.

Most wealthy people (whom I have known) who are, combined with taste and knowledge of art, will not pay more but rather pay less for great art if they
can possibly arrange a deal.

Most any reasonable deal may be reached between a seller and a potential buyer when push comes to shove I think. One thing that has worked for me is renting a painting for a few weeks to the buyer while they decide weather or not to possess the work by title.

I am not a painter but a photographer. Still the same principles apply.. I tried reading through every posts but wow!!! Harold you make some very valid points.. I do disagree in one though. You said you made $17,000 in your last two shows and would I want to compete with an artisits with your experience.. You bet I would.. If you there are shows that have that kind of money walking around I want a shot at it.

As a photographeer with over 45yrs in the trenches and now pretty much retired I can say marketing is a very fine art. When I am not doing art which I find I am producing more and more, I do business portraits and product photography. I market these through networking groups, visiting potential clients and using a leave behind. One thing when I was doing family portraits and pets I used Realtors. This little jewel netted me a lot of business. Most all realtors have house warming gifts they present after a sale. What I did was take that cost away from them and cordinated with them and gave the "gift" in their name.. They would give me the name and date of their sale.. I would mail a coupon out to the new home owner, in the realtors name for a free portrait sitting and 1 8x10 from that sitting in their new home. Time limit of 30-45 days to cash in.

In my area there are a number of 4 yr high schools. That means a child goes from 8th grade to high school (9th grade) When I retired 4yrs ago I was the only studio in town actively pursuing new 9th gradestudents.. I was marketing 8th grade move up sessions.. just like most studios were marketing senior portraits. That was and probably still is a wide open field.

There, two freebies that have a proven track record.. What I want to know is how to you folks market your fine art? not your pet photos, not family portraits but just your Art.. I got 40+ yrs doing the other stuff..

I have been successful marketing portraits of hunting dogs in action based upon photos of the customer's bird dogs. I am a professional illustrator and painter so it's my skill that is used to compose an interesting scene. The key is in the composition or scren writing if you will. The word of mouth method soon runs out for new customers though and I've found that flyers posted in vet offices and coupons for a vet's customers with a credit to charity for placing homeless pets.

The key is to sell them on the idea that you have an appealing product of unusual content and the customers are forever loyal after their first purchase. As a result I've moved up to wildlife scene paintings which are appreciated by outdoor minded folks who can afford log homes in the country.

Good deal Vincent... Do you do Art shows or Fairs?

I posted this in another thread:

I don't know if this helps, but I have to agree with who say that you do need to market yourself. My wife handles all of my marketing. Through her efforts I have been successfully selling some of my originals, giclee prints we have had done, and many greeting cards (sold as "framable greeting cards, inexpensive, but beautiful when matted and framed). I cannot support myself through this (yet) but have been able to make $500-$600 a month doing this. I live in a small town, and word of mouth has been very important. Also, a local bookstore has an area they have dedicated to showing my work, and selling my prints and greeting cards. This has been possible by my wife and I getting out there and making connections. It takes a lot of work, but it has been worth every minute of it. I have not sold a print through this site (yet, I hope), but have only been here for a week or so.

Ron; not many art shows as I should get into; reason is these cost to be in and or be "accepted" in and are very hectic but they can produce sales if you work them. I may try the county fair this summer with some Jesse James artworks. I like to try odd venues like the up-coming Steve MqQuen birthday bash and festival in his home town.
Also events I may show in in which I display my own cars)Land Rover) like the All British Car & Cycle Show. I can count on meeting millionaires here with cool cars and they like art with cars. Usually booths for this type of show are only $25-100.00. There's a big one this moth in California and it's a $100.00 for a booth.

I like the idea of magazine ads too. Civil War, wildlife, and I'm showing some photographs on the National Geographic Site too.

Elliot; be careful to not forget to always show your appreciation to your wife for what she is doing for you!

Vincent: Appreciation for what my wife does is a must! I totally realise that I would not be where I am without her!

Hi everybody. I'm 43yr, philanthropist & open minded. Traveling is my passion. Photography comes as a corollary. It’s my hobby too.

I have seen many good & bad colors of human life. I'm photographing irregularly in last 2 decades.

Since last couple of years I felt deep interest in photography. My gears are as http://www.geavity.com/people/amitavaray/

I felt stunning interest about photograph sales after I got huge comments in Yahoo-Flickr http://www.flickr.com/photos/amitavaray

Now I'm feeling money comes mainly from Portrait photography nor just from Nature or Landscapes !!! Please comment..

There are so many senior peoples I need your complete advice or true criticism for my real up-gradation.

I appreciate the marketing advice I'm reading here.It is cheaper to have your artwork hang in restaurant etc,but it does cost money to have them framed,printed on canvas,etc.
its tough for some of us on a limited budget.
selling online seemed to be a good solution but the market is over crowded.
anyone else have success selling online or more offline?

Have a parade complete with a marching band.

I am gonna check into that.. Permits and such will be wild but I think it would be fun....

The local high school cheer leaders are always wanting a gig. Pay a few hundred and they might show up!

Today I started calling on local businesses like Realtors, Insurance Agents, Doctor/Dentist and other med professionals including hositals and leaving a 4x6 card advertising my work and my FAA web site.. I will be doing art shows this spring/summer/fall and a couple of Christmas shows..
Someone on here indicated that they would not do art shows.. The idea is they are standing there with 150 other artisits waiting to sell a piece of their art was unappealing.. I will be doing the same but treating the show as an advertising opportunity.
I have talked to several local photographic artists and they seem to be doing ok at the shows, some better than others. So I dont think that the shows will be a bust.. Nor do I think that they will make me rich..
Now where can I get a canopy with sides?
I am also going to be talking to a few book stores, resturants and coffee houses about hanging my art. After reading the above comments I have decided that marketing my art is no different than when I marketed my wedding/portrait studio. This IS a business and should be treated as such.

Now, I have the cheer leaders on board, I wonder can I get the High School marching band....?? hmmmmm gotta make a call...

You must consider some charity work as well Ron. Your favorite cause always needs a booster. I am a champion of Salvation Army, World Wildlife Fund and the Huamne Society. I've raised for Rhino mercenary groups, the Dianne Fossey Gorilla fund but I never have raised a lot only met enough people to get some orders and be respected for my wildlife work.

The art show theme is something people plan in advance as a year long itinerary. I am wanting to stick close to home due to travel expenses so I'm trying the more amateur shows.

It's a fun game if your proud of your work.

Hiya guys,

I have been away from this topic a little too long.

Ron you have the right idea about art shows. But there are certain shows that we call "Money Shows" and others just to show your work and meet people. There are a lot of those shows. What you need is an E-Z Up 10'x10' tent. This is the one I have:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-EZ-UP-Commercial-Canopy-4-Wall-Pop-Up-Tent-Gazebo-/310303663587

You might want to call a couple of local newspapers and tell them a local hometown guy has a show coming up.

Hey Vincent, that's a great idea you have. I think I will giv it a try on my next show. I will have to check into the charities because I have heard that a lot of them have become money making charities for the people who sponsor them and very little if anything goes to the people in need. Personally I usually stop somebody on the street around Christmas time and drop a $100. bill in his hand and say "Merry Christmas my good man." This past year I nearly had a traffic accident because when I noticed a man I thought was the most needy looking, I was driving down Rt. 18 with my wife in the car. She screamed so loud when I pulled off to the side, she made me promise to never do that again.

Good luck Ron. I hope you sell everything.

Harold; Did you ever meet Coolige or Art Sarnof(dogs playing poker)?

Yes Charities.. I will be involoved in photographing the Local relay for Life.. My daughter in Law is a survivor, My mother and father, unfortunately are not.. I will also have some of my art on Various fund raising tables for the Cancer scoiciety through out the year.. I agree charities are a big deal, they were for my studio and I am sure will be for this venture.

I dont plan to do any far ranging shows either.. Here in the Seattle Area there are a number of shows that we consider local, ie; less that 100 miles one way.

EZ up.,. thats what I couldn't think of.. Thanks. I have got some good advice and good ideas from this forum.. Thanks a lot eveeryone

Because photographers earn money from work derived from living wild animals I think it is only natural to give something back however you can to
make life on earth a little easier for them, if you think of them as models who never got paid maybe.

Harold

I love your ideas.
Marketing is all about getting great and simple ideas, keep the costs down - and not to forget HARD WORK.
I used to be a sales and marketing director, and I can confirm, there are few free rides.

Michael

I thought facebook was a waste of time then started to add car clubs to my friends list. This led onto model diecast model car enthusiasts. I did a couple of photograph based digital artworks of peoples models and its opened up a whole new world of potential customers. Now I am looking to go down that route as there doesnt seem to be many people offering this kind of artwork to them. All this has occurred over the last couple of days so it is still in its infancy. ;0) Gra

So you wildlife photographers are not paying back?

Gra Howard,

Sounds l;ike you found a nitch market.. One question how to you get your art in the format you have it on your post above?

Tried T-Shirt design? Perhaps it's a hack artiast's path but people want them. T-shirt art is always a subjective deal but expensive. With so many images out in the world there is always room for a better one which an enthusiast will wear. I've made some Land Rover, Land Cruiser and reptile drawings but have yet to try selling them in printed T-shirt or a poster form. I think T-Shirts will sell if you are inthe arera of the target market.

Hi Vincent

Yes I pay back to wildlife as much as I can, I am involved in many animal charities and donate regularily, I buy and renew memberships for all the localities I shoot from, I try to educate people about conservation and captivity and also contribute to the Save The Gorilla Campain, whatever comes up I`m in there if Ican

Great ideas all--

Very helpful, informative thread.

T shirt is a good idea. However it need a budget. You need to order many in order the price goes down. I also dont have a place to sell.

I also make some illustrations with animals related in order to remember and support the nature. I would love to start the charity collection.

Thank you for the Ideas!

A good bio is the place to start-then example of your work in the form of a photo book-theme-set etc-Then email it- also free adobe calendars with your images-also emailable

I just did the t-shirt thing... haven't received my first samples yet, but I think they are going to look awesome :-)

Zazzle DJunod

We did get a couple of the coffee cups today, and they look mega!

Free site-tho you can upgrade and share photos-files etc www.keepandshare.com

Something odd going on here, it says this thread was added to 14 hours ago jet the last entry was April and its now July, so how does that work?

Post your Facebook Business page here!
We all know how it can be challenging for a new business to grow a fan base., So let's follow each other's pages and business on FB.
If you've got a business page on Facebook simply leave a link to your page and a comment if you want. It is a simple, easy , painless networking tool and can benefit everyone in the group!
How it Works
You list your facebook page on this group and as Soon as one of the group members follow you, then you follow them..Sweet!
Social Media Flash Hit Mob-Join us for how to get 1000 fans on your FB pages or hits on your WP-You may also follow the link to the groups facebook page.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Time-for-change/161577413911344
On yahoo free groups- http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/fast-facebook-hits/

And does all this pointless following make one sale?
Its just at best a big social group of strangers with time to kill. Not with intention to buy.

If a person was in the market for art they would go look for it, not browse face book or any other social group in the off chance they stumble over some art they like, is this how you buy your car, or art supplies. No I assume not, you type in the search word for the thing you want then go look at it and having found it you may buy it but looking on social groups for items to buy sounds unlikely to me.

Yes some one will see your work and go look at it and there is the remotest chance they may buy but not likely as they where chating about whatever and only went to look to see just what you do do.

The amount of time wasted on these sits including this one is enormous, most spend time there out of boredom or avoidance in doing stuff they do not want to do. Seriously I spend very little time here now , 3 years worth of pretty intense presents has done nothing more then reduce my out put.

I am now spending it where it matters, my body of work, which is no longer here but on www.artbymariodonk.com

Mario-Facebook is the biggest marketing tool-You can use Fine Art and connect to your site-and do much to help your exposure! And all Free- your donk site is is great -omly if you are not paying big bucks to search engines -Donk comes after Zonk and that means you may be on page 1500 it search listing! What you wrote "you type in the search word for the thing you want then go look at it and having found it" was okay yesterday=No more.

Futhermore--If your business is not on the mobile web, your customers won’t be able to find you!
There are 4 billion mobile phones in active use worldwide: 4 times more than PCs. In 2009, mobile web usage increased 148% globally (Source: Quantcast) and the numbers continue to rise. In fact, by the end of 2013, customers using the mobile web are projected to grow to 1 billion. Your customers are already looking for you on their mobile phones. This is a huge opportunity for your business you don’t want to miss.


Mobile Web sites different than PC sites

Mobile websites are built to exploit the special characteristics of mobile phones and mobile users to provide the best possible experience to users. Besides adapting to the smaller screen of a mobile phone, they are also made easier to navigate using touch or a keypad and provide more direct access to the information that a customer is more likely to need while on the go.

Even on high-end devices with large touch-screens, a made-for-mobile Website helps your visitors quickly become happy customers with content and a design that’s suited to someone in a mobile context for example, customers can use the unique features of the mobile phone to contact you such as the ‘call us’ feature, where with one touch they call your business and the ‘find us’ feature, which provides access to a Google map showing your business address and allowing the customer to obtain directions from their present location to your business.



No need to reply-just trying to help.

Harold


You mentioned buying an EZUp tent for the Money shows, is there a good reference that artist can use to find these better shows or is word of mount the way to go?


TX


Phil

Happy to have found this site. Great information, door hangers, hanging pictures in banks, and t-shirts! Here is my facebook page and returning likes does help exposure to everyone's fan base. See my most recent Dreamscapes at http://www.carolynzaroff.com and

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Carolyn-Zaroff/144649171582

Thank you,

Carolyn Zaroff

Happy to have found this site. Great information, door hangers, hanging pictures in banks, and t-shirts! Here is my facebook page and returning likes does help exposure to everyone's fan base. See Red Dawn the most recent Dreamscapes at http://www.carolynzaroff.com and

Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Carolyn-Zaroff/144649171582

Thank you,

Vickie Christensen for

Carolyn Zaroff

Hal ~ I have long resisted the marketing aspect of my craft, considering commercialism crass and almost beneath me. While I have been blessed to sell several paintings along the way, those sales have been resulted as much from random good fortune as from any strategic marketing campaign on my part. Finally, I am now among the disciples willing for masters to appear. As newcomer to this forum, I genuinely appreciate yourself and others sharing freely of your accumulated wisdom and years of seasoned expertise.

With Pleasure,

Frank Strasser

See this Group and promtote using FaceBook Page Links

FA Group:

Promote Your Art

http://fineartamerica.com/groups/promote-your-art.html?tab=overview

cut and paste it if no direct link

Haroldl, you are a good and generous man and a wonderful artist. I hope your previously discouraged soul has recovered and I wish you well. Times have to change--nothing stays the same and you do have a lot of talent. We are all waiting for that time. I wish you well..

Hi there

I am a noob to FAA too. I certainly wish I knew the secret to marketing too. I am baased in Budapest in Europe and if you have not been to a school but are self-taught as I am, no gallery will look at you. Ihave exhibitedin cafés and at galleries in schools - one seemed quite a good venue, and my work doesalways get a positive response. This does not translate as sales though.

Getting a book of your work published in Blurb does not cost alot, though finding things to improve in proof copies can start to get expensive. Ihave two books of my artwork on Blurb.

I am on facebook too:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Nexus7s-Artwork/106665059986

And I will certainly fan you if you fan me

And yes Harold

Your DVD looks very classy. Congratulations

Hello Harold,
Your post is quite informative.Check out this website https://cafepress.com/cheche1 to see how I promote my own artworks.You too can get involved. Thanks Egbune harold Cheche

Here is my facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Nexus7s-Artwork/106665059986

I have taken the t-shirt route too - on certain of my works:

http://www.zazzle.com/my/products/public?sr=250910734703627168

I have sold a mousepad to someone I know on this site and hope to be able to order a little merchandise soon

Hiya guys,

Thank you very much Val and Lynda for your kindness and support of this thread. And, thank you to all of the other artists who have contributed an any way to this topic.

It's been a while since I contributed new information to this thread because of my full-time stint as a freelancer in New York City. It was a very well-spent experience for me. Besides the money I earned, I also learned InDesign and can now add that to my credentials. Now that my freelance stint is over I am back to painting and marketing myself as another freelancer. Here is another tip for you:

At the present time I am designing, producing and printing Christmas cards for a neighbor. I have been doing her cards every Christmas for the past 5 or 6 years. For all of you photographers, I'll bet you have enough photographs in your stockpile to create some personal Christmas cards for buying customers. You can advertise this very lucrative project at your nearest card shops. Merely contact the owner of the store and ask him if you could put up a small poster near his Christmas card rack and offer him a percentage. Most of them will agree to another way of making some Holiday money. This is also good for Hanukkah and other Holidays. At the very least it will bring in some Christmas money. It has for me for quite a few years. I have had to turn down offers because of lack of time. I also make my own cards for my wife and me.

I will try to add some more tips later and I hope that all of you other artists/photographers who have some tips of your own will jump right in and post them.

So how does one approach a restaurant to hang their stuff? What do you say? Do you just have it on the wall or is my name next to it with a price? I'm clueless. Thanks

Great advice here, many thanks to all!

I have found my Facebook page has bought me the biggest return by far in the shortest space of time, (with the least amount of time and energy expended too!) .I've had at least a dozen sales in one way or another, and a book offer, with another in the pipeline from FB alone.
The way I did it was align myself with other pages that have the same type of philosophy as my art, (not all artists, a whole different bunch of pages), once Id 'liked' a whole lot of pages with this type of theme, I then used the tagging system (all in the marketing tools there) and BOOM, within a couple of months, loads of stuff happening. :-)

I can't tell you how helpful this has been. Harold thank you for sharing your wisdom with us. I've sold a few images from time to time, but nothing consistent. I managed to get one of my images showcased on the Smithsonian Website, and later the Smithsonian channel, but haven't really seen any sales come from it. I think like many others I am weak in marketing myself.

Thanks again Harold!

Harold, This was just the discussion I was looking for. Thank you so much for your ideas and for the contributions of others. I agree with you about art shows. I think they are stepping stones for getting your work seen and for your resume and not so much for sales. I would like other ideas. I like the brochure because I like to network and can hand my brochure out to interior designers who often purchase art for their clients. I am currently taking a marketing class for facebook that greatly expands your ability to sell your art there and at least showcase it. I have had galleries subscribe to my page but not sales yet. I am fairly new though. 1 year here at FAA. I am still developing my style. Used to be a black and White photographer. Now learning Digital. Thanks Harold for this thread. You are encouraging.

About 40 years ago I saw an ad in Rolling Stone, the magazine, someone wanted a million people to send them one dollar each. Don't know how they made out, if they're alive today they probably are making millions off the internet.
My question is, does anyone have any hard data on how advertsing on other websites like twitter, stumble, FB etc. actually translates into sales? Obviously if you can get zillions of views you're going to make sales but I feel sometimes I waste my time advertising and marketing and am just making money for the owners of the other websites like twitter, FB, Squidoo etc. It's like the gold rushes of the 19 century - it wasn't the miners for the most part who made all the money, it was more often the merchants who went there and charged the miners $20 for a loaf of bread while the miners were doing all the real work.

MY DEAR HAROID THANK YOU SOO MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR IDEAS.

LOVE DENIS.

Thank you all for your support of this thread.

Here is a website link that will give you information about most of the art shows in this country:

http://www.local.com/results.aspx?keyword=art+show&cid=1265&gclid=CP3ykJK5m68CFYbe4AodSDtTZQ

Hello all, my name is Jo Ann or just Jo. Any way when I tried to get my business up and running which it did not work
I had gotten my name out there by going to a place call Vista prints.com and they have a lot of different ways to help you out,
yes you have to spen money but you will Make money buy going to them or advertise in the weekley ads, etc...

I do plan on doing what I did but now that I have a great company like AAF I feel I will get some where now, ( or I hope too).

Good luck to you all...

Jo

I've been posting my art in twitter and facebook, haven't really had much success. How do you talk to banks, realtors and others about hanging your art there?

Great dvd covers by the way.

This is simply great and very helpful discussion...Thank You Guys for sharing all this :) All the Best with You art...@-@ Mo

Hiya guys,

I don't know if I mentioned this in the above posts but "The Best Marketing Tool Ever Created" is at your fingertips - the computer and all of its programs - but most importantly, the Internet. I have spoken with dozens of old-timers, like me, in the adverising field about how easy it would have been for us if we had the computer and its programs when we had gotten our first creative groans. Some said it would have cut more than half the time they spent looking for the right arena in which to spread their wings. Also it would have given them the chance to compare the industries without having to work for each and every one of them in order to find out for themselves.

You can find all and any information you need in order to market yourself. With the information posted on the internet you can market yourself as a know-it-all professional by merely searching it out on the internet. Did you know you can save hundreds of dollars being spent for resumes and cover letters by putting searches out there for the best of them and then substituting your information instead of theirs and walla, you just saved what they had spent gtting theirs done by professionals. These are just some tricks of the trade you can use to market yourself. Years ago, a very good friend of mine came over to my studio and was excited to show me his resume that he just spent $140.00 to have it composed by some professional copywriter. After he posted it on the interent i copied it and put my own information in it. It showed me whether to justify, center abold the copy for the best results. Even the fonts he used were there. When I compared mine with his, they were entirely different looking. He had a big laugh later when I told him how I saved myself $140.00. This method is also great to use for cover letters. Why should you people spend money and time learning how and what to do when all the answers are right there at your fingertips to use.

Start using your head and not your pocketbook or wallet to market yourself. Once your money runs out and you are marketing yourself just to get rent or food money the whole picture changes. Then it's no longer fun or an educational experience. It's a survival experience. It has been said many times that a gambler can't win on scared money or money he needs to live on. It just doesn't work that way. I love to play cards for money and have won and lost a lot but I never drew an inside straight when I had to...never.

Wonderful thread to have come across! Thanks so much for the very helpful info :D

Thank you Robin. If I helped only one struggling artist on his path to being recognized, it was well worth it. Although marketing is one of the most important tools an artist should use, it shouldn't become a financial burden. God only knows the many road blocks that an artist has to experience in his/her lifetime. It's also unfortunate that the beginning artists need to master self marketing skills and are oblivious to it's importance in their growth as a succesful artist. They spend years of their lives honing their skills and then wonder in amazement why nobody has ever heard of them. Its that same old story about the horn. I would venture to say that every successful artist was a master at marketing or knew somebody who was.

Thank you Harold for all of the encouragement and the wonderful ideas. I absolutely love the door hanger idea! I have been using Facebook to show work, so I will keep that up and kudos to the t-shirt idea. I'm going to try that too. Someone mentioned Vistaprint and they are absolutely a great place for ideas and they are relatively inexpensive. They do my business cards, so maybe I will start taking advantage of some of the other items they offer.

Good luck to everyone and let's keep those ideas coming!!

How do I hang my work at the vet for free? I have to get printed and into a frame or on canvas which is expensive. I dont think there is such a thing as free marketing. Heck, I even had to pay for FAA to get my work displayed.

Hi Harold,
Thanks for sharing all these ideas and for starting this discussion.
I love the idea of displaying art in public places. I could add that another way of making it attractive for the place that accepts to display it is to have some sort of silent auction with a starting price that covers your expense and mark-up, and let's say that you agree that... a don't know, 1/2, 1/4 or some percentage from what the sale makes above the starting price, you'll donate it to them. In some way it would be fundraising thing for them as well.

In any case, I would like to know what you think about my works, if you'd give me a + or a - on sell-ability.

Also, here's my presence on facebook: https://www.facebook.com/anca.jugarean.

I don't know how familiar you are with RedBubble... Here's my RB page:http://www.redbubble.com/people/ancajugarean.

Thank you Dawn. Dawn, I never leave home without my business cards...never! Also, You may want to try to do your own cards, it's cheaper.

Semmick, so what's your point? It even costs to be born or die. When I said free, I meant that you can find a vet that won't charge you a dime. I found two without even trying.

Thank you Anca and I will check your art out and get back to you.

Thank you Harold for all your advice.

I've been on FAA for about 9 months now and only sold about 5 pieces here. Not that I'm complaining but I wish I could do better on this site. I'm a Multimedia Specialist and I work on content management websites, video productions and photography. I find it extremely difficult to market my fine art photography along with my regular work online and face to face.

I have a few questions.

1) Is it commonly standard to pay 50% of profit to gallery owners per exhibition in your area?
2) How many likes did you have on Facebook when you sold your first few pieces through FB.

Here's my FB page http://www.facebook.com/greatprints